At Sat Oct 07, 08:52:10 PM EDT, Meri said...
To clear up some misinformation that is being spread around the Internet I wanted to explain a few things.
I blogged about MIP6 (Mark Purcell and his many other names), and Reality (and his many other names) because they can have a direct impact on this boycott movement. MIP6 has been encouraging people to "invest" in Aruba and he works on Aruba and is friendly with Julia Renfro so my exposing him for the anti-boycott, anti Holloway/Twitty poster that he is, was important and necessary.
My reasons for doing a very short blog on Reality are also obvious because he has said many negative things about one of Natalee's family members on various sites.
I NEVER attempted to "Out" Rammenstein (or whatever names he may go by) because he is simply NOT important and is NO threat to this movement. He is simply a man who likes to hear the sound of his own voice (or read his own words in this case) and is of no importance to me whatsoever. I did have a Dutch citizen from The Netherlands who TEACHES English as a second language translate a couple of the documents that Ramm claims to have translated and this TEACHER found several errors in the translations. Errors that could and did change the relevance of the document. That may have occurred because Ramm is not proficient in his own language or for some nefarious reason unknown to me. I simply don't care about Mr. Rammenstien and yet he protests and protests about what I have written. He is not even a part of what I have written yet he places himself in the center of everything for whatever reasons he may have.
I am guessing that Mr. Rammenstien needs a lot of attention and I feel sorry for him.
Anyone who opposes the boycott opposes the family of Natalee in my opinion and deserves to be exposed. That would include MIP6 and Reality so I spoke about them. No matter who the family member is, my goal is to support them and the boycott movement and if by telling the TRUTH about who opposes it helps, then that is what I must do.
Aruba lied. Aruba let the family and Natalee down and as a result of their actions we have no answers regarding what happened to Natalee Holloway.
The boycott is a tool to make them realize that we are serious about finding the truth and that we won't stop until we do. They have a choice; they can tell what they REALLY know and let the truth come out in its entirety or they can continue to lie and cover-up.
As long as they do the latter we will boycott them and make them pay for their behavior in the only way that is productive. Boycotting Aruba is necessary until the truth is known.
Mr. Rammenstien can yammer all he wants to and lie about things he knows nothing about till the cows come home and it won't stop this movement nor will it stop me. He has sufficiently exposed himself in his own words so it is not necessary for me to belabor the point. He is what he is and all who have read his so-called Bio know the facts.
The boycott is for Natalee and her family and it will go forward. Poor Ramm has NO power to stop it and his words are hollow. I have been sent several copies of his recent blogs and if they hadn't of been so laughable I would have cried out in pity at his lack of accurate information.
Oh, and one more thing Ramm, people drink BEER...NOT BEARS. You really should take an English class before you continue to bill yourself as a translator of any language into English.
Meri
Well, I always knew Meri had a few issues with reality but I never knew they were this big LOL LOL LOL.
So here goes:
1. I do love the sound of my own keyboard, but don't you have that problem too?? Furthermore, I don't try to be important to you or anyone else, I stick to trying to be myself and telling the truth as I know/see it.
2. I don't doubt you showed a few translations to that teacher friend of yours, but I have a sneaky suspicion that you showed him translations that were not done by me, but by the good folks over at Scared Monkeys (ask Michelle about that one). And yes, in the translations made by Scared Monkeys, there were serious imperfections in translating that did change the meaning of the document.
My translations on the other hand did not contain any mistakes like that (mabye a few grammatical errors but no translating errors). So either you got it wrong (again) and gave the poor guy the wrong statements (statements that were not translated by me) or you should ask that person to contact me. I give private english lessons to remedial students (even if they teach English as a second language).
3. I might protest at what you write, but it has nothing to do with the boycott or you. It is just that from time to time someone has to speak up and expose your lies, your hatred and you getting facts wrong time and time again, and I have a problem keeping my keyboard silent when I read absolute hog-wash so I just have to speak up.
And I am often quite right to speak up in the face of so much inaccuracy, the above post for example clearly proves that you often blog like a headless chicken because you missed my personality discription by a country mile.
4. and if someone should talk about attention grabbing, try this one on for size regarding that one:
5. there is one thing I can agree on and that is this:
The aruban police-force has lied IMHO, on top of that, they have done a really crappy job on this investigation (can't really say how I feel about their level of "expertise" because that would be riddled with profanity and I should rather try not to go down that road) and their incompetence has been the primary cause that this case is still unsolved and that the parents of Natalee (all 4 of them) are still without the answers that they deserve. How much of this incompetence is down to corruption is a matter for another investigation to determine, I have suspicions and indications pointing to this but that is not the same as being able to prove it so I will err on the side of caution here.
The aruban government (who may not be able to dictate the actions taken in the investigation but is still politically responsible) should feel the consequences of their actions but as I have said before, I think that the wrong people are getting punished/hit by this boycott that don't deserve to be hit by this (the regular folks on Aruba).
It is however the fault of the Aruban government that it has not yet started an investigation into it's own failings. It should have founded/started an independant group of experts to investigate the failings in this case in order to find out who failed Aruba, the Holloway/Twitty families and most importantly, who failed Natalee.
The results of such an investigation would undoubtedly show how incredibly inept, incompetent and downright incredibly stupid this case has been handled since day one. And that should cost both Mr. Oduber and mr. Croes their jobs (along with a good part of the police-officers who have been working on this case).
But even though I may feel differently about this boycott then other people (and I do say that if asked), I fully agree with the fact that each man/woman must decide for him-/her-self whether to join the tourism-boycot of Aruba or not.
6. and about the beer/bears remark. If you were talking about the issue with the translated document about the internet use of the van der Sloots, then it was not my mistake but the translating software that Klaasend used. If it was regarding the Auntiem remark then I have to say your right, I made a typo. But I'd rather be wrong on a typo then wrong on the issues like some people that I know.
Rammstein
15 comments:
Rammstein,
I commend you for creating this blog and attempting to show the hate site arubaboycottblogspot for what it is, and lets be clear it is a hate site.
The one thing you say, I do not agree with is the fact that the ALE has totally botched this case. Unless anyone was there personally and witnessed what this Mountain Brook Group of people did to interfere with the investigation, one cannot assess total blame on them. They were an Island under attack by a bitter group of bullies, demanding Justice their way or no way. They were overcome with the American media and all the follies that came with this circus. They were trying to please and do an investigation as well. Herein is where there mistakes were made, they should have put their foot down with the family in the very beginning.
I respect the Island of Aruba, and its citizens,and their laws, and I respect the Dutch and their laws as well.
The main factor that has been overlooked here is that the family failed to take into consideration the cultures of the different people, and that language difference has been a giant factor in all the misunderstandings surrounding this case.
On a Caribean (sp)Island there is a more laid back atmosphere. I have witnessed that as I have been to the Caribean (sp)over 14 times, and that is what I love about it.That does not mean they are not efficient or they don't get anything done, it just means they move at a slower pace. It is not in the least uncommon on one of these Islands that someone misses their flight and decides to extend their stay.
I have to say that the fault here lies all the way around, no one is exempt from wrong doing. The family arrived with first assumptions as if Natalee ran away, then assumptions of kidnapped, and then they immediately arrive on the Van der Sloots door step in the middle of the night, in a vigilante mode, so of course that would put the Van der Sloots in a defensive mood. I wouldn't have been very cooperative with an angry group of thugs that arrived at my doorstep in the middle of the night, either. The media overstepped their role, and on and on and on and on. There is plenty of blame to go around for everyone. Now the infighting between Beth and Robin, and the blog sites taking sides, and it has become a second rate Jerry Springer show. As long as there is no proof a crime has been commited and no body has been found it is still within the realm of possibilty that Natalee is alive somewhere.
I would love to debate this never ending saga with you at some time. I posted as anonymous simply because I didn't care to go through another password thing, as I have far too many passwords to remember at this point, but in no way am I ashamed to attach my name and reputation on anything I have to say.
I represent a group of over 10,000 members who fight for Justice, and fight for people who are unjustly accused without evidence and in the media and public opinion. We believe in Justice being done by the laws to which the country involved demands. We fight for people falsely being slandered, libeled and vigilante justice in the court of public opinion. If and when these boys are ever found guilty of any crime we then are all for them being punished to the fullest extent that the laws of their country demands, and at that time there is plenty of time to bash, etc. Right now it is a travesty of our Justice system and anyone elses Justice system to affix any blame, slander or libel against anyone, until such time a crime has been established and the real perpetrators are announced.
I also respectfully disagree with your statement that the family needs to address the blogs and come to a truce of sorts. It is my belief that the only family contact with the hate blog sites, should be to ask them to back off and stop making this a hate issue. Let Justice play out in the case. Too much interference is not a good thing, and with this hate attached to it, it has reduced Natalee Holloway's name to a name involved with hate and that is insane. It has now become all about hate, money,greed, which side can win, and vigilante justice.
Forever now when Natalee Holloways name comes up it immediately brings to mind all this hate and negativity, so her legacy (if she is no longer alive) will forever be tainted, and she has her Mother and Father to thank for that. I purposely leave out the Step Mother and Step Father, not because of their unimportance, but the main motivators is the Mother and Father, and the hate sites.
Thanks
I never said the ALE totally botched this case. I said they handled the case extremely poorly and that this was the primary cause for all the problems we face right now.
Yes, cultural and personal differences played some part on all sides but if the ALE had called in the help they could have called in (like more help from the Interregional Detective Squad of the Antilles) a lot of problems could have been avoided.
Furthermore, Jan van der Straten does not play a pretty part in this case. Why would he daily visit the father of the main suspect for example?
ALE incompetence: Any discussion needs to address...
1. Belt
2. Tarp
3. Teal Cloth
4. Grave Sized Hole
5. Bone with Flesh
6. Inadequate Search of ALL VDS propertie(s)
7. Zero Follow-up Questions of ANYONE
8. Judge made decisions who himself admitted to be a friend and often houseguest of PVDS
9. Janssen Contact D.C. to check Beth HERITAGE
10. Water Search for two SAILORS passed off as search for Natalee
11. Gladly asked U.S. Navy to assist in search for sailors but not for Natalee
12. Retraction of "she is dead" statement
13. RELEASED all suspects in such a way that they do not have to ever come in to be re-interviewed when they COULD HAVE done otherwise
14. Spent the first ten days "watching" the suspects only DURING DAYLIGHT HOURS
15. Allowed the "acting" Chief of Police to trash the family in the media and blame the victim not just once but TWICE yet complain they have been harmed by the media
16. Obviously put Tourism ahead of JUSTICE
17. Used every opportunity to blame anyone handy for their lack of doing anything worthwhile toward justice
When I pray for justice, I ask not just for that justice for Natalee. I hope, pray and seek justice for all the wrong done in this more than year long fiasco.
But, aside from all the above, Aruba had a reason for all they have done. No matter how much I disagree with it. However, I see no reason for the hate spewed daily by many (not all) on the Refugee's Unleashed or the hate spewed by Deetch, Meri and Michelle of the hate by all the individuals who have made a point of posting their own trashing and hate of Robin on Michelle's site. I know the names of Wingnut, DKPen, J4N and a few others but the names of all those anonymous posts are not unknown to the only ONE who matters or sits in ultimate judgement of us all.
I don't know that the Netherlands (itself) is any more involved than the FBI. For all I know Aruba lied to place blame on them just as they have done with everyone else. But there is no way I can look over the many errors of the past many months and not KNOW that Aruba's ALE, government and prosecutor's office ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT CORRUPT.
I just want Natalee found.
Hi Rammstein,
Again I say there is plenty of blame to go around on ALL sides, not just that of the ALE. One can sit here for the next 40 years and point fingers and name call, and push blame back and forth, but that will never solve the problem or do anything towards stopping all the hate this case has caused.
There are many tales to tell on both sides, and the Arubans have with held telling the true story of the complete behavior of the families. I am certain if everyone was privy to all that information then a much different stance and view would be taken on this situation.
Botched cases go on in an every day scenario, and because of that and the constant finger pointing often times gets in the way of finding out the truth. Whatever has been put out on the blog sites, regarding any evidence, witnesses I have discounted completely. The problem here is too much rumor and gossip and not enough actual knowledge. I don't go by speculation, rumor, gossip, I go by actual evidence presented at the proper time. All I know about Van der Stratten has come from gossip and rumors spread by many people who are trying to manipulate a situation. So for the other poster and all the list of the belt, etc, I have yet to have any of that completely varified by the Prosecutor herself, so I cannot count that as truth.
There has been plenty of gossip regarding the other side as well, as to Natalee having run away before, etc, and I have discounted that until it is substiantiated, as well. So I am looking at this from a completely unbiased point of view. I am not emotionally invested in either side, just on the side of Justice.
And also in regards to the poster, saying I just want Natalee found, you surely must realize that many missing persons are never found. Tara Grinstead has not been found, Jennifer Kessee, has never been found, Trenton Duckett has not been found, Amanda Jones has not been found. And that is just 4 individuals in the USA among hundreds. And I want them all found, but in facing reality, it may never happen. Such may be the case with Natalee. If she cannot be found, just how do you propose to perform the miracle of finding her. There are World War 11 soldiers whose bodies have never been found, and many family members went to their graves not knowing where or what happened to their loved ones, who sacrificed their lives so everyone can sit on a blog site and bash and complain. What happened then to the Army, Navy, ect, who say we leave no one behind when obviously they did leave some behind. Simple, sometimes it never happens, that is the reality of life.
Lastly Rammstein, could of, should of, would of, 16 months after the disappearance, will never solve the problem here. The families could of not been focused solely on tunnel vision either, but then hey that is another could of, which will not end this cycle of hate. Mistakes were made all around on all sides where everyone is concerned in the whole case, but at this point the focus should be on solutions, not on the blame game.
The spreading of hate, name calling blog wars, and family infighting and drawing battle lines, is bringing this case to the level of third grade behavior, and the boycott is absolutely the worse way to go when you are expecting people to help you and then you boycott them. The famiy operates on the level that they are applying pressure, well that pressure tactic will not work. And in the final analysis, if the boys did nothing to Natalee, they simply have nothing to tell, so answers have to come from somewhere else. You cannot torture people to make them confess to something they did not do. They cannot answer to where Natalee is, if they do not know.
And lastly the hate must stop, as hate begats hate, and does nothing to make anyone heal. Hate is like a cancer and it eats away at the person doing the hating and it eventutally destroys them, but in the process it is also contagious, and is spread to others to pick up the hate and continue on with it. It is more likened to terriorist behavior than anything else.
Thanks
Well the last anonymous just before this post has all the answers about the err of everyone else and a whole bunch of "I" statements about how perfect his/her viewpoint is but there is much awry with your commentary.
You act like this is a "gee both sides made mistakes" that got us to here. I do not agree. We wouldn't be here at all if the ALE had done their JOB, in a professional manner for the purpose of finding the truth and delivering justice in the first place. They did not.
And the only "family infighting and drawing battle lines" is what has been spewed on Michelle's site. I have never seen or heard Robin or Dave say a single word against Beth, Jug or anyone else in either family. For that matter, I have also never seen or heard anything to confirm that Beth really does support or is even aware of anything Michelle has to say on her site. I believe it very likely this is a line drawn in the sand by Michelle and her crew and has nothing to do with any of the family.
I do not get your point that seems to say Ramm or any of us should not be posting anything against the hate from Michelle's site or in support of Robin who is under attack as if we are creating the situation. How is allowing someone to be slandered and heaped with hate without saying anything about it useful or in anyone's best interest? Sometimes, one does have to stand up and fire back.
The Michelle site is a hateful horrible place that many wish would go away. But, ignoring them without any response at all is not the answer either.
As for the list of items the ALE needs to account for, of course, there is no evidence. The ALE were in charge of getting rid of the evidence. THAT alone is what makes the crime from Aruba so horrible. The very people who ARE responsible for safety, security, justice ARE involved in the corruption.
I contend this crime COULD HAVE BEEN solved in hours, if those hours hadn't been spent covering up for their elite golden boy Judge-In-Training's son.
Since you object to everything we are doing or saying, why are YOU even here? To save us from our own vocabularies. Maybe you should go back to exchanging recipes and stick with posting on Michelle's site to stop the hate.
And by the way, posting here or wherever objecting to the hate Michelle, Meri and Deetch has spewed is NOT just more hate. It is opening the eyes and giving voice to something that is wrong on virtually every level.
Hi Ramm...Queen of Denmark here (I had to check 'anonymous' because I don't have my own blog).
Anyway....for the person who claims that an ESL teacher from Holland has criticized your English language skills, let me say this:
I am ALSO and ESL teacher, and frankly, I think your written English skills are excellent. It would be obvious to anyone in my field that your written proficiency is at an advanced level.
Perhaps my opinion doesn't weigh anymore than the next persons, but if we are going to throw around qualifications, then my hat is in the ring (and I'll be you know what the expression 'throwing my hat in the ring' means!!)
Queen of Denmark,
Angelalala here... I agree 100%. I have lived many places and by many standards am considered a linguist. Yet my command of NO other language (IMO) is up to the standard Rammstein displays on a routine basis.
Good Job Ramm!
Hello,
This is indeed complicated to answer from anonymous to anonymous, so I will refer to the times at the bottom of the post. Regarding my anonymous post of 7:14 and the answer from anonymous at 9:39, I think somehow you missed my point completely. My 4:06 anonymous post commends Rammstein for creating this blog site for the express purpose of exposing the hate vile blogsite of Michelles.
Of course I will admit, that since we are posting under the anonymous title, you had no idea that I was one in the same, but I wanted to point that out, so you can see I am not in any way shape or form casting any aspersions upon Rammstein for the intent of this blog. It needed to be done, and again thanks Rammstein.
My intent is to look at this situation for what it is at this point, and just how it got to be the fiasco it has become.
I must state once again, no one really knows whether or not any evidence was suppressed, on the other hand the majority of my group do know of how many false witnesses and false evidence, has been planted,and elemenated, which has severely limited the chances for this investigation to succeed.
Everything that has been put out on the blogs and the message boards is just rumors, speculation, and innuendo, unless anyone is privy to first hand knowledge, directly from the prosecutor.
I again state that at this point, no one knows exactly the final statements that are on record, and mistakes were made on all sides. To state otherwise is just being biased to one side or the other, and I do state that I am coming from a completely unbiased point of view, and have no emotional ties for or against either side other than just wanting Justice to be served properly.
It is very hard for me to dismiss, the Skeeters tape drama, the Bo Dietl incident, the Jossy Mansur propoganda,the Joe Mammana connection, and on and on, however I am trying to avoid that in order to try and point out that indeed many mistakes were made on all sides. That I feel is a very fair statement.
When a site such as Michelle's, and scared monkeys pushes so much hate, and encourages Vigilante Justice, I have to then be skeptical about who sponsors such sites, and Michelle clearly has written on her site, that hers is the only boycott site endorsed by Beth Twitty. And I also then note that Beth Twitty promotes Scared Monkeys on her tv appearances. I am also pointing out that I feel it very inappropriate for the family to promote and endorse this kind of hate, and condone a boycott while in the same breath she wants and needs their help. It appears to be very counter productive and hypocrital from my standpoint.
Mistakes were made on all sides, and the media just added to the list of mistakes that were made, and the beat goes on and on and on. One of the only credible statements that was made by Beth Twitty was that the family was a good example of what not to do. I find that very correct, she was right on in that one, however she has not learned from any of those mistakes and continues on the same crash course. So be it, it is her daughters case, and if she wants to continue to mess it up let her do it, however this promoting of the hate has become a very troublsome issue, and very unsettling for many reasons. I personally have no direct knowledge as of this date to be able to adamately say without a doubt that there is any corruption or cover up regarding this case. I don't see it and I have yet to see any proof of it, and until someone can show me proof positive, other than what has been posted on blog sites, and message boards, I will continue to believe that they have done their best to try to solve this missing young woman mystery.
Regarding the issue with Robin, it is my opinion that she nor Beth should be affiliated with any of the blogs,they are not going to find Natalee on them, and it then turns into what it is now. I don't know personally who did what to who, and I don't care, it is and should be a family issue, and not a public issue. That is of course my opinion, and my belief,s and I believe I certainly am entitled to them.
It was my belief that Rammstein was opening a fair and balanced blogsite, and I took that opportunity to give my view point. I do not waste my time getting on blog sites and message boards to argue with anyone. You have an opinion, you expressed it, and I had an opinion and I expressed it. I know where I am coming from and I know about what I am talking about or I do not give my opinion at all. I do not participate in running anyone down, or spreading hate, or promoting Vigilante Justice, nor do I run any other countries Justice System down. I allow people to do their work, and when they are done, and I know all the facts, it is then that I can decide whether or not I feel the case has been botched, but I do require the true facts first and I do not condemn people out of emotion. Natalee is at this time is just one among thousands of missing persons all over the world. Sadly it happens every day, just like the little baby that was found in a trash bag today. It is my business to take care of what goes on in my own back yard, and everyone has to do the same thing. I change what I can, and I accept what I cannot change. That is all anyone can do, even Beth Twitty.
Lastly to answer your question as to why I am on here, I think I mentioned in one of my paragraphs that I was here because it was my belief that Rammstein was opening a fair and balanced blogspot, it is not my intention to get into a flame war. I approve of his disapproving of Michelle's vile site, and I totally disapprove of any boycott on any country. If people boycott for botched cases (if that is what this turns out to be) then indeed every state within the United States should be boycotted starting with California, and Colorado regarding the John Mark Karr issue. Nuff said.
thanks
To the anonymous post of 12:08,
This is an excellent idea of referencing the time of a post. You do get bonus points for common sense and intelligence there.
I can see now in the context of BOTH of your notes when taken in their entirety that you were not "saying" what I perceived from "just" the second post. Sorry. It seemed to me from just associating the second one with an individual poster the message was that Ramm should not be doing "this" at all. As you've said, now that I see your comments congruently, I agee very much that THIS "separate" blog is very useful and worthwhile.
My issue primary is the hate. I do not understand a "so-called" Support Site purposely attacking BFN because they say (entirely unsubstantiated IMO) that BFN allows members how "bash the family" but after completely dividing the entire support base into fractured groups virtually thrown to the winds, they THEN commence THEMSELVES bashing the family (Robin). It simply "blows my mind" that they are now doing the very thing they (IMO falsely) accused BFN of doing.
So, apparently our refernce of the concept of "hate" was not the same since you've now clarified that THIS aspect of "hate" was not your point in the first place. I took it that since that was the original purpose of Ramm's blog entry that we are both replying to that you were also talking about "that" incident of hate that has transpired.
In my opinion the list of things that the ALE has lost, not saved, or merely discarded as possibly evidenciary are confirmed items. They are not from "just" blog entries. They are all things that "someone" on Aruba at the time they came up brought forward as problems with the way the ALE seemed to discard evidence. Therefore your point to the TRUE fact that the prosecutor has no evidence to be considered is IMO because the ALE made sure she had none. However, as you've said, we are both entitled to our opinion and we have both expressed it.
As for Dave or Beth or any family member "backing" a particular site I have to say that I have not really done very much reading at SM. I don't like the way it seems disorganized and is just one long running conversation with anything from recipes to case discussion all mixed in the same thread so I have given up trying to use it as a source of information. Therefore, I could well be wrong, but I have never actually categorized (in my mind) the SM site as a "hate" site. In particular not rising to the level of hate flung out by the likes of Michelle, Meri or Deetch.
However, my point to clarifying this lack of in-depth knowledge of SM on my part is to say except for the possibility that SM "is" a hate site, I have never seen anything in print or heard via any major media from Beth herself that she backs, supports or condones anything from a hate site. Meaning, I have never heard HER say she DOES support Michelle, Meri, or Deetch. For all I know those various instances where Michelle keeps posting that she does represent Beth I believe it is entirely possible Beth actually has no idea what Michelle is saying on that site now. I'm not sure if it is possible but if it is legally feasible, if I were Beth, I would put JQ Kelly to the task of "forcing" Michelle's site to print a public retraction and remove my (Beth's) name from all instances on her site. It will be interesting to see in the coming days or weeks if Beth takes steps to completely sever all appearance of her affiliation with Michelle's site.
As for Robin's involvement on the blogs, in particular BFN, I was actually very impressed that she took the risk of making a public post on behalf of Ramm and others who were under attack by Michelle. She did not "have" to do so. She could have remained disconnected from the blogs entirely but she chose to come out in public on BFN and stand up for supporters who she felt were being unfairly attacked and used as a divisionary tactic. That took a lot of guts, and has obviously been at great personal cost in tears and heartbreak.
There are other finer points where I agree or disagree but the point I wanted to make was just these main areas. Now that I see the totality of what you have had to say I do apologize for mis-judging you. I also have no emotional involvement beyond simple gravitation toward what IMO is right and revulsion of what IMO is wrong.
As Ramm knows (he knows who I am) and is welcome to share with you personally if you know and are "trusted" by him with my identity my views on "the" boycott are very unique and actually have virtually nothing to do with Natalee or this case. Having said that, what I do not understand about those who post comments on Michelle's site in support of the boycott is the tremendous amount of hate they insist on advocating. IMO the family merely asked for individuals to consider ONLY a travel boycott of ONLY Aruba. It is unclear in my mind how this grew into the horror of Michelle's soap box.
I do want to add one more thing though on the subject of a boycott: As I recall the family called for this travel boycott of Aruba because they had presented a letter to Aruba asking for a new investigation that replaced several of the key people Aruba had on the case. It will be interesting to see if NOW that Aruba has finally done JUST WHAT THEY WANTED, will the family make a public announcement that they are no longer calling for any boycott. It would make sense to me. They asked for something, they didn't get it, they called the travel boycott because their request was denied - now in effect they have gotten what they wanted so will they go public and call off any boycott?
I have enjoyed this exchange with you and I appreciate this forum to have participated in it. Thank you Ramm.
Ramm,
Thanks for starting this anti-hate blog to counter the hatred spewed forth from the bowels of hate itself, Michele’s man-haters xenophobia site, with supporting hate from Deetch, Meri, Dkpen, J4N, antuim, Joyce & a host of others, grand total no more than 15 hardcore hating xenophobes.
I can not believe that Michele’s site has the backing of Beth, to believe that would mean that Beth herself is all about hating in Natalee's name.
It would mean that Beth supports hate flung far and wide to smear Robin.
It would mean that people who have been saying for all these months that Beth no longer cares about Natalee are right, that Beth only cares about hating & revenge. Can she really be a backer for this kind of hatred? How is it possible that a grieving mother can be so hate filled she would actually back a site such as Michele’s’ and support hating in Natalee’s name?
If in fact Beth is a supporter of Michele’s efforts than she is lost forever. It would mean she, Beth, is no better than some skinhead hating “just because”. I can’t believe that is true.
If Beth is a supporter of such hatred she needs to come forward and say so, if she is not she needs to do the same, come forward and denounce the hate filled sites for what they are.
Until such time as Beth does come forward I have to think that she is in fact in full support of the hate being spewed in Natalee’s name, how sad it must be to be so consumed by hatred that you not only allow but also condone this to happen in your daughter’s name.
If we are to believe that Beth is a support of Michele’s site than we must also believe she is a supporter of all the nastiness Michelle & Meri have posted about other blogger / posters & Robin Holloway herself on that nasty site Michelle runs.
I cannot believe that this could be so.
Beth professes her love of God and speaks to Christian learning’s and her own Christianity.
I can’t believe that a true believer in Christ would ever be in support of such hatred.
Beth prove me wrong, come forward and tell the world you do not hate in the name of Natalee, tell the world that Natalee means more to you than just a spring board for you to hate in the name of your daughter.
anonymous 3:14
I am glad that we can come together with actually the same objectives, with minor differences of opinion, which is okay, no one can agree 100 per cent, but the idea is to give each poster equal respect for their thoughts and beliefs.
The main points we agree upon and truly important one as well, is the hate postings. I have purposely stayed away from Scared Monkeys, and Michelle's site for all this time, it has just been in the recent 2 weeks that I decided to check them out. Prior to that, from what I had heard about them they did not sound like a site I would enjoy being affiliated with, but you know how it is, sometimes you decide to find out for yourself.
As I read through the comments on both sites, it became apparent to me that the posters had adapted the Vigilante Justice syndrome. In other words, they were advocating that if things do not turn out the way they want it to, they would advocate for someone, and in some cases even themselves to do harm to the boys. This I feel is very wrong, and I do not feel a blog site owner should allow those types of posts to remain in a comment site, on their blog, so hence I have to then concur that the site owner themselves believe in hate and vengence also.
Whether said in jest or truly meant as a threat, either way it is totally inappropriate. Even if it is only said in Jest, there is always some loose cannon out there that will take it upon themselves to be the hero and do what has been suggested. We simply cannot advocate that kind of Vigilante Justice, as a civilized society we have gone far past that stage, and in todays violent society, it is scary enough, let alone having blog sites approve and encourage this kind of posting.
So from that then you can understand my anger, that anyone from the family who would associate themselves with this sort of blog site, are both approving of and supporting hate and vengence. So in essence, I have to feel that if the family is going to communicate with these blog sites then they should carefully monitor those sites to see what they are putting up in their name. Simply put there are an awful lot of people out there that are talking for the family, and that is a dangerous thing, hence my stance that the family should disassociate themselves with the blog sites.
For instance, Michele saying her boycott blog site is the only one endorsed by Beth Twitty. That is telling the world that Beth Twitty is approving of the hate that Michelle spews. So yes absolutely I agree that Beth as well as Dave and Robin should have those blog sites checked out to see what is being put out there in their names, and what people are saying on behalf of the family. The inference is certainly there, and it does not paint a pretty sight.
As I stated previously, I stand for Justice, and the Presumption of Innocence until proven Guilty. Sometimes Justice doesn't always prevail in a courtroom, but rest assured, everyone has a right to pursue their justice. Since I was not present personally the night Natalee disappeared, I have absolutely no clue of just what did happen to her, so I wait for the prosecutor to gather her evidence, and see if she can build a case or not. There is a possibility that the boys did not do anything as well, except for their immediate attempts to fabricate their stories. I never want to see 3 innocent boys sent to prison and their lives ruined, for something they didn't do. On the other hand I don't like to see guilty people walk free, but rest assured even if guilty walk free, they still will be held accountable by a higher being than myself in the end run. So I want to see them have a fair trial by the court, and not by the public opinion, who often times goes by emotion only.
I am not saying that is a bad thing, I am just saying if someone gets emotionally involved in one way their emotions can color their perception, and render them unable to be able to look at things in a rational way. In our country we have a jury system, and that is why it is such an awesome task to pick a jury, as a lot of people cannot set their emotions aside to view the facts of the case the way it should be. Far too many people are jailed that are innocent due to this factor, and of course some guilty get off, OJ is an example, however he will pay in the end run.
And of course the bottom line of all this is the fact that if things are left to stand the way they are with the hate blog sites, and the family not coming out and making a statement against it, then Natalee's name will forever be linked to a nasty hate campaign, instead of in a good light.
And lastly I emphasize that my feelings are that a boycott will not put the pressure the family believes it will, as it will stand to hurt far too many innocent people who have bent over backwards to help the family, and then Natalee's name will always be attached to that also.
Natalee, IF she is deceased, I would personally would rather see her name and memory be held in a good light, not one with hate and boycotts. To me it never really mattered whether Natalee was portrayed as a virgen, honor student. She was a typical teenager, and as typical teenagers all over the world she did some things her parents do not want to believe she did. The over stressing of Natalee's virtues, gives the impression that the family is saying her importance was greater than another persons, and my beliefs are that a human being is a human being whether or not they had an A average or a D average, and in spite of whether they did have sex or they didn't have sex is of little importance nor my business, but every human being is equally valuable, no one above the other. All human life is precious. Of course we can somewhat exclude the mass murderers, etc, but I think you know what I mean.
Thanks for your response. This is what I like to do is debate the issue, not argue over things. I enjoy the opportunity to make my opinion heard, and I enjoy hearing others, whether or not I totally agree. I feel we need to spread peace on earth and respect for each person, regardless of race, religion or nationality. All humans are created equally, and there is far too much violence in todays world, I try not to be part of it.
http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/
http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/
http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/
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